Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gary Roberts on November 9, 2010 at 11:28am

Welcome to the wonderful world of Amazon and ISBN's. What happens is simply this: a mess of companies subscribe to Bowker to get the monthly ISBN files. They have software that allows them to post to their seller account on Amazon, register what other people are charging for a book and automatically adjust their price to beat the others, down to a limit that the set. Some simply set a percentage to underprice.

I'ld recommend ignoring all of them. Some, such as The Book Depository, are legitimate and actually great retailers. I believe that most people buy from Amazon rather than.

Permalink Reply by Deborah McCarragher on November 9, 2010 at 11:45am

Thanks Gary for the info :) I'm still learning (lol). At least I know I'm the cheapest now. I sell in many on-line retailers and my website. I also have books in a few Christian bookstores on consignment - which works out quite well for me. The book is available thru Ingram at any retailer - they just won't give me shelf space (except for a couple local ones :)

I guess I'm just still confused how they are actually getting books for resale. I own them all - except for the few w/ the distributor.

I appreciate your information Gary...


p.s. Don't know why my post had such a large font. I kept trying to change it - but to no avail. :(

Permalink Reply by Gary Roberts on November 9, 2010 at 2:12pm

Take a look at this book on my imprint: Mechanic Exercises. I added a note under my storefront that I'm the publisher. On occassion, people actually pay attention.

You can see the wide variety of prices. There are even a few 'used' copies even though they are not used. It's just an attempt to scam the public.

These companies are not getting anything to sell. They're placing what is basically an advertisement for each and every book having an ISBN, which means every book on Amazon. If someone actually buys a copy, they contact whoever is the publisher, wholesaler or distributor and pay for a copy at whatever the discount is. If they are buying direct from Amazon, it's Amazon that is stocking the book and shipping it. If so, a percentage goes to Amazon, to the second level retailer and then to you.

It's the distributor who is handling any sales for you. You may not know the book is being ordered from another online retail outfit as your percentage is whatever Amazon or your distributor is giving you. That in-between scam company is acting as if they have a huge warehouse of books when in reality, they're just a computer somewhere. A1 books, originally based in India, recently closed shop and reorganized as another company... all just computers, no actual stock.

A bit round about but thats' basically the mess.

Permalink Reply by Deborah McCarragher on November 9, 2010 at 2:23pm

Ah, now I see... Thanks Gary. I have shipped a few books to Amazon. Not a large quantity, and I have re-shipped several times. My distributor had about 50 books to start w/ to feed into Ingram's warehouse, etc.

I really appreciate the detailed explanation. God bless you...

Deborah

Permalink Reply by Robert E. Milliken on December 16, 2010 at 3:13pm

Is all I do is strugle but that's what builds character. On the other hand if you read my book you will know, I am in no short supply of that.

Permalink Reply by Deborah McCarragher on November 9, 2010 at 7:17pm

Hi Theresa. Yes, when I signed up w/ my distributor I knew they provided my books to Ingram/Spring Arbor for orders through bookstores, etc. Being a Christian book author, that was the only way I could have it available at Christian stores. I couldn't set up my own Ingram account because I only had (1) book - and the minimum was (10). As far as Bowker goes, I purchased a small block of ISBN's for my paperback, audio book and Ebook. They weren't that expensive. The small independent press I used to print my books was very accommodating and gave me the .pdf version included w/ the print copies. I do physically have all of my books, consisting of (8) boxes (which I have stored in my bonus room - no big deal). I love having the book here (climate controlled storage) and it's easy for me to ship out as orders come in through my website. What I love best is the ability to give out a copy for review (free) or send an Ebook free of charge as well to whomever I want to. I have sole control over my product. No matter how I sell it - I'm recovering my initial cost of printing, cover design, promotional costs, etc. It's a win - win situation for me, personally. I am blessed because I don't have to rely on the book sales money for a living...

Permalink Reply by Dave Bricker on November 9, 2010 at 6:47pm

I use Lightning Source to print my books. As far as I know, they are the only POD Printer that allows me to sell through Amazon et al at a 20% seller's discount. I have the usual characters listing my book as "available," but most of them have higher prices than Amazon's. The 50% commission to a bookseller just doesn't work for most indy writers. If I printed and shipped books to my local indy bookstore, my profit would be only $1.01 per book. By thinking outside the bookstore, I can make money from online sales and do even better with direct presentations to my target audience in non-bookstore venues.

Beware of vanity publishers who offer to distribute copies to a list of "qualified reviewers." These books end up for sale immediately on eBay at less than your costs for printing.

Permalink Reply by Deborah McCarragher on November 9, 2010 at 7:22pm

Thanks Dave for your input. I have my Ebook distribution through Lightning Source, as well as Smashwords, Amazon kindle, etc. I have not used a POD printer, and most likely won't since I have a traditional printer willing to work with me and keep the cost fairly low for an order of 500 books. But, never say never - right?

Permalink Reply by Dave Bricker on November 10, 2010 at 4:47am

I distribute my eBooks directly, but the quandary with POD vs. offset is I have to warehouse books. It would take me a long time to sell 500 books directly, though that will change as my speaking business grows. Certainly, offset is cheaper, but at slightly higher price, the convenience of being able to refer people to an Amazon page where there are reviews and a trusted buying channel outweighs the hassles of order fulfillment and storage. If you have the space and the audience contact, offset makes a lot of sense. I have a client who has sold as many as 1000 books at a single speaking event, but he's switching to POD so he can order books shipped to his next engagement and will only have to haul a few unsold books on the way back. I have no argument that suggests either POD or offset is "better," but certainly, each has advantages for different writers in different circumstances. Certainly POD requires less up-front investment while a book's marketability is tested. You can always switch.

Many good writers become really bad booksellers. Let's face it, if you're going into retail, why sell a $15-$20 product that's usually wholesaled at a 50% discount where your production cost is often 30%? With some notable exceptions, the people making money in indy publishing are earning it off the credibility that comes from "having written the book on a subject," not directly from book sales. With that in mind, authors who sell mostly direct and local are well-advised to use offset and those who sell online or travel may find POD more beneficial.

Permalink Reply by Deborah McCarragher on November 10, 2010 at 9:13am

I agree Dave,
Sales from my website are slow - but steady, as are the on-line sales from Amazon, B&N, etc. Since my book (paperback) is Christian non-fiction, my main thrust will be sales in local churches and bible study groups. I will no doubt venture into speaking engagements where I expect to sell even more books. This book for me is a "ministry", and my main goal is to reach women who are in the same dilemma in their marriage. My cost per book (inclusive) is under $4.00 - so if I can sell my books for $7.95 on sale ($9.95 retail) - I'm doing just fine. I even discount them more for church groups. As far as sales on-line go - that's gravy for me personally. I'd rather have my inventory here and carry them w/ me in the car, and have stock available immediately. I also have the book in Epub format, Kindle, and audio book on CD. The benefits, as you say, are mixed. Thanks so much for your reply!

Permalink Reply by Dave Bricker on November 10, 2010 at 12:18pm

I think you're an excellent example of how indy publishers have a different approach and different goals. At $3.95 profit per book, your total profit on 500 books will be less than $2000—and you'll break even at 250 books sold. It may take you a while to unload 250 books, BUT…

As you said, “This book for me is a "ministry", and my main goal is to reach women who are in the same dilemma in their marriage.”

If you have a message and a mission, your overall risk is low and the difference you can make in peoples' lives is potentially huge. It's not about selling books; success gets defined in different ways than a NY publishing house would.

I'm just using you as an example, because so many people publish and start thinking about moving "book product." It's unfortunate because good writers are best at moving people.

On the purely practical side, I don't know how many pages your book is, but I assume it's under 200 pages if you're selling it for $7.95. I'd be interested to see how POD prices compare to your offset printing costs, just to know. My self-publishing book is just over 100 pages and costs me about $2.50 per book to print and ship. In quantities as low as 500 books, you may find there's not much difference in cost and you can save the space and the up-front investment.

Regardless of the business metrics, it sounds like you're doing things right. Keep it up and I wish you success with your book.

Permalink Reply by Deborah McCarragher on November 10, 2010 at 6:45pm

Dave,

Great facts & illustration - thanks. My book is 8o pages. Short & sweet :) It is meant for easy reading, as most women don't have much time! It also has bible study questions at the end of each chapter & a self-reflection area. You can view it on my website at http://www.GodMissionPossible.com . I also have a blog at http://www.GodMissionPossible.blogspot.com . God bless you for your help in my search for answers...

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